#2 Answer to objections

Hello,

I am now beginning to compose this list of answers to objections against, and evidence for the Pre-Trib Rapture because I am quite weary with answering to the same questions over and over again. As new challenges are fielded to me, they will be answered and added to this document. If you are wishing to debate or discuss the Rapture with me, you must carefully read and answer to what I present to you below and in other mailings which I will send to you. If your comments and objections ignore what I have gone to great length to answer to already, I will not read the rest of your post, and your message will be deleted and unanswered.

But before you climb onto your pedestal to tell me that I should get off of mine, we must decide who deserves a first and respectful hearing. There are only about 4 other people that I know of on this entire planet that are as informed or more informed on this subject than I am, and they are all too busy with “big business” to write personally to you. If you claim to be this level of expert on Rapture Doctrines, then tell me so.

You therefore please do not take my willingness to answer to you as a sign that I am “just another equally insignificant opinion” on this matter. I assert that there is no man living who can successfully and probatively defend a pre-wrath or post-trib opinion against my argument and evidence. My recent refusal to go ON AND ON with some who challenged me is the product of exhaustion, boredom, annoyance and time constraints: not because I am insecure or unable to take the challenge.

Please be apprised:

I have studied this subject intensely for many years.

I have answered surely more than 500 letters challenging or inquiring about my Rapture doctrine: most of those letters were answered completely and with evidence.

I have read and considered all the evidence that is usually presented to support either pre-wrath or post-trib views.

I concede that EVERY present argument (including mine) on the timing of the Rapture is less than perfect. I only claim to have SUPERIOR evidence in support of the Pre-Trib view.

I have sufficient respect in this matter outside my own imagination to have been published worldwide by others, and other people have been SENDING pre-wrathers and post-tribbers to ME for years, asking me to ANSWER FOR THEM.

SO…..please allow me to establish and dismiss some premises that I do not want to answer to again, as if I have not answered to them sufficiently and already. Please do not ask me to answer to these things again, or you will not be answered. I simply do not have the time to go on with those who do not treat my previous labors with respect. If you want to discuss this matter with me, you must read ALL that I send to you on this matter FIRST, and especially and beginning with chapter 4 of THE GREAT DREAM.

1. I do not teach, nor have I ever believed in IMMINENCY. The doctrine of IMMINENCY teaches that there are no signs that precede the Rapture, and that the Rapture always could have happened at any moment. I teach that the apostasy, the appearance of the antichrist MUST COME FIRST. The Rapture happens AFTER these things.

2. I do not teach that everyone who says “Jesus” gets to go in the Rapture. Neither do I teach that all who will finally be saved go in the Rapture. Certainly, lazy, carnal and inattentive people (whether saved or not) are going to be left behind.

3. I do not teach that the Holy Ghost is no longer in the earth after the Rapture. Such a notion is preposterous; Job 34:14-15 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

4. I teach that there will be conversions to Christ and/or repentances from backsliding AFTER the Rapture, and that these are the persecuted saints of the Tribulation.

5. My view, which I call “Pre-Trib” for convenience of understanding, is actually “early Day of the Lord”. We (those accounted worthy in Luke 21:36) are here for some small part of the opening scenes of The Day Of The Lord, but are not here for the organized final persecutions under the Antichrist, and we are certainly not here for the horrible scenes portrayed in the Revelation after chapter 4.

6. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine goes back at least to the 5th century and I have records and quotes on file to prove it.

7. DO NOT TELL ME that the word RAPTURE “is not in the Bible”! The word “RAPTURE” has it’s entrance into the language of the Church by the year 412AD when Jerome translated the Greek HARPHAZO (caught up) to the Latin “raptur-ey” in the Vulgate. The word “rapture” has been in the vocabulary of The Church for 16 centuries.

8. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine does NOT originate with a 15 year old girl named Margaret McDonald, and Margaret McDonald’s “vision” (which I have on file and can send to you) makes NO MENTION of any pre-trib Rapture.

9. Dispensationalist and Hyperdispensationalist doctrines are not necessarily connected to any Rapture Doctrine. These are separate subjects. I am NOT defending “Scofieldism”.

10. The Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine does NOT originate with a Jesuit priest named Manuel Lacunza in 1797. Lacunza taught a late-trib form of pre-wrath. I read it myself in his own words.

11. I make no firm declaration on the length of The Tribulation; it will be either 3 1/2 years or 7 years: but either way, this does not affect my doctrine.

Do not ask me to answer for any of these things as if I didn’t know and as if I didn’t ALREADY ANSWER. You may ask me to send you my documentation.

OBJECTION #1:

“But haven’t the Christians of all ages had to suffer persecution and martyrdom for their faith? Why should we imagine that we should have it any easier?”

ANSWER:

The above is the most common complaint against a Pre-Trib Rapture that I am hearing lately, so I have decided to tear this straw man apart piece by piece at the outset. The above practically presumes that most of the REAL Christians that ever lived have lived in abject poverty, or have been jailed for their faith, or have been executed for their faith. I deny that this is the case.

QUESTION: Has there EVER been even one real Christian who lived a long and blessing-filled life and died in peace and prosperity in their old age? Has there EVER been even JUST ONE real Christian who never suffered any persecution beyond the pressures that some of us experience already (this is the same question)?

MOST of the real Christians in history have been marginal players in the affairs of organized religion, with a few exceptions (Martin Luther, for example). They did not “compete” with The Establishment for money and power, and neither did they use their religion as a cloak for some other political or cultural agenda. They were “little people” at or near the bottom of society, and thus were largely ignored. They were safe, decent, responsible, tax-paying citizens, and so they did not attract the attention of the police nor did they provoke outrage in their communities. Besides the fact that they were not criminals, they were also diligent, hard working, and generous. These things combined with God’s attention and care for their well being produced peacable and stable lives. NOTE: in 1272, Katarina Von Schlegel in Catholic Germany wrote the entirely Protestant sounding hymn, “Be Still My Soul”. Her life is on record, and she was never before the Inquisition. NOTE: The Arians (who denied the Trinity) were also persecuted by the RCC, but are you also ready to call these all “real Christians”? Hitler nearly exterminated the Jehovah’s Witnesses from Germany – do these also get to be called “Christians” because they were persecuted? The True Saints have always been here – but they have been mostly ignored by the historians.

AND BY THE WAY: the aforementioned Martin Luther lived an exciting and adventurous life; got married and retired before the age of 50 to a farm, and spent the rest of his life surrounded by protectors and admirers while his enemies raged in fultility at a distance.

The above objection also presumes that “we” are not getting persecuted enough NOW, and so we must “have our share” of persecution during the tribulation. But Paul said this:

2 Timothy 3:12) Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

 

If you have not gotten and are not receiving your “fair share” of persecution NOW, then you are NOT living ” godly in Christ Jesus“. There is no need to wait for some future event to get your “fair share”: just begin to live and speak in agreement with Jesus Christ today and you’ll have your share of persecution by tomorrow.

FURTHERMORE, after all these years and all these many debates, I have discovered a pattern among the advocates of the pre-wrath and post-trib views: they all nurture a cynical view of God, which they are EVER preaching by innuendo beneath their supposed concern for their Rapture doctrine.

3 John 1:2) Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

 

This ought to be our desire for all our brethren; that they would have health and money as well as grow in Christ. It is socially unacceptable to openly desire that others would suffer poverty and pain, and being the disingenuous cowards that they are, they will not boldly proclaim their evil hope, but will instead proclaim their good will…..but whenever they are not making a formal declaration of their good will, they are preaching a description of God which leaves you under the impression that God is quite peeved at your prosperity.

They are waiting to see how many “Praise The Lords” you can force out when you are sick and in distress. They want you to be “put to the test”, to see how faithful you will be when you are in trials. The God they represent is the same: he is an annoyed god, who won’t be satisfied until you are perfectly peaceful and full of praises while you watch your children die and contemplate your own abject misery.

Jesus said:

John 10:10) The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

But these pre-wrath and post-trib misanthropes would have you to believe that Christ intended us to understand “life more abundantly” as being life without health, without food, and without possessions. If you cannot be happy while your own life and the lives of those you love are being mutilated and destroyed – “you must not really love God – but things” (that is what they say or imply). You have often heard the saying, “Seek the giver and not the gifts” – but NEVER from me. You cannot divorce the giver from the gifts. The Giver wills to be revealed with His gifts.

But WHEN these misanthropes are confronted by someone who claims to be in God’s favor, and to enjoy the benefits of God’s blessings, their answer is this:

Wisdom 2:17-22 (Apocrypha)

Let us see if his words be true: and let us prove what shall happen in the end of him. For if the just man be the son of God, He will help him, and deliver him from the hand of his enemies. Let us examine him with despitefulness and torture, that we may know his meekness and prove his patience, Let us condemn him with a shameful death: for by his own saying he shall be respected. Such things they did imagine, and were deceived: for their own wickedness hath blinded them. As for the mysteries of God, they knew them not: neither hoped they for the wages of righteousness, nor discerned a reward for blameless souls.

This is exactly the message of these pre-wrath and post-trib advocates. They hate your optimistic hope that your faithfulness to God will be rewarded with a good life and escape from troubles, and they want you to be put to the test.

MARTIN LUTHER, from Sermons On The Cathechism, on Matt.6:12

But deliver us from evil

In the Greek it is poneros. We receive evil from everything that hurts us. It’s whole meaning points to the devil. We can sum it up this way: Deliver us from the wicked devil, who hinders everything we have been previously talking about; from that wicked one, evil one, deliver us! Nevertheless, you must include in this “evil” everything on earth which is evil, such as sickness, poverty, death, whatever evil there is in the dominion of Satan, of which there is very much on earth. For who can count all the evils? A child becomes sick, and so forth. In short: Deliver us from the Devil! Then the name of God will be hallowed, His kingdom come, His will be done, and we shall be delivered from all things.

But the tacit prayer of these pre-wrath and post-trib advocates is, “Please do lead us into temptation!”….that we may be tempted to doubt God’s goodness, or even His existence! They want you to volunteer for, invite, and charge headlong into the test of your faith!

WHY? Because they do not believe that God will lift a finger to do anything for you, and they want you to be convinced of what they already believe – that God is NOT interested in your happiness: but only in how well you perform under sufferings and trials.

PLEASE….listen to me….CAREFULLY: those who say that we must endure some or all of the Tribulation, are placing the endurance of that Tribulation BETWEEN you and the Coming of Christ, ARE THEY NOT?

YES THEY ARE….they are saying that you must endure some of The Day of The Lord in order to make The Rapture. Please face this.

AND SO….if you CLAIM that you want Jesus to come back, you must also be desiring for The Day Of The Lord to begin…..right? According to them you will have to have already endured some of The Day Of The Lord before you see Jesus in The Rapture.

Do you want Jesus to come back? Do you wish to enter into The Great Tribulation so that you can see Jesus come back? Do you wish The Great Tribulation would begin NOW, so you can see Jesus come back? Do you DESIRE THE DAY OF THE LORD?

Amos 5:18) Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19) As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20) Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Do you see even a hint in the above scriptures, suggesting that these wanna-be Tribulation heroes are going to be the champions they advertise themselves to be? Does God hold out any hope to those who DESIRE THE DAY OF THE LORD? God says to these, “To what end is it for you?” – does this suggest a good end?

But these pre-wrath and post-trib advocates have all these hypotheticals about how we shall be preserved through the Tribulation. We shall be in a “bubble” of protection; we shall not need food or will be fed by ravens like Elijah; we shall be immune to cold and exposure: all of this they must construe because of how abhorrent and horrible is the “party” they are inviting us to. But the Word of God explicitly states that those who Desire the Day of the Lord shall only go from trouble to trouble, from wound to wound, and from danger to danger.

Revelation 13:7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Now remember, I said above that there are AFTER Rapture converts and repentances, and these are the saints the Antichrist persecutes. But tell me, WHO, after being left behind for any of this, manages to escape the persecutions? NO ONE – according to the above. The only victory possible for Saints in The Tribulation is to hold on to their faith until they die.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

So BE INFORMED…..that those who would convince you of these pre-wrath and post-trib doctrines are inviting you to invite yourself to the nightmare of all history. You are not promised any victory during The Tribulation – only relief when you finally die.

Those of you who have protested against my adamant refusal to make friends with those who teach pre-wrath and post-trib doctrines have not faced up to the whole picture. You secretly suspect or fear that their cynical view of God is the correct one, and so you want to make room for their supposed “good intentions”. But they are advocating a slanderous view of God Himself, and I will NOT be a party to it – no, not so long as God keeps my heart beating. Their doctrine poisons your hope in God’s providential care for your present life and makes you hope that the Coming of Christ is far, far off. NO ONE really wants to enter The Tribulation, and so if we must go through this in order to see The Rapture: better to have that postponed until after we die of old age. In either case, we know that we shall die: but it is better to die in your own bed after a long life of blessings; surrounded by friends and loved ones, than it is to be tortured to death at only 19 years of age. You who want to think otherwise are self-deceived. You are carefully exercising yourself to escape sickness, loss and every form of suffering every minute of every day. If you are so concerned to prove your willingness to die for Christ – then just get yourself a plane ticket to Pakistan; hit the streets, and go up and down shouting, “All Gods but the Christian God are devils!” – you will get your wish right away! Why wait for The Tribulation? Fools! Self-deceived and liars are the lot of you!

Malachi 3:16) Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.

17) And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

18) Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

 Malachi 4:1) For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2) But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3) And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

Now I am asking you…pleading with you, to face up to what is said above, and take this as a declaration from God.

What is the day when God makes up His jewels? (The Rapture)

What does He spare them from? (The Tribulation)

Where shall they return from? (The heavens, where they have been with Jesus)

Where do they return to? (The earth, where The Tribulation has taken place – “ashes under your feet”.)

What is the day that burneth like an oven? (The Tribulation)

When shall we go forth as “calves of the stall” – NOT as angelic spirits but as resurrected into health and youth? (The Millennium)

TIME AND TIME AGAIN I have presented this and other scriptures to the pre-wrath and post-trib advocates, asking them for an alternate explanation that will match the details of the text. THEY HAVE NONE. But still – they just say “Na…..I don’t think so”, and they go on like a skipping record with their cynical predictions.

So I will close this article with the same question I have been asking over and over again, and have NOT YET been able to get many of you to pay attention to this and ANSWER it:

“IF, it can finally be said, that there is evidence to support all views on the timing of the Rapture: so that no present opinion on the matter adequately answers all the questions; so that the present arguments at best only cancel each other out….WHY then, does anyone gravitate towards and prefer to defend the more cynical views? Well, I told you why above. They prefer these cynical views of The Rapture because they agree with their cynical view of God.

Therefore I will NOT allow that all opinions on this matter are the product of the same sincerity and hope, and I will NOT make friends of people who champion these cynical pre-wrath and post-trib doctrines.

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