On our regular debate list, there has been a discussion
going on about Adam and Eve and their sin in eating of the forbidden
fruit. The inquiries were focused on relative fault - who sinned
worse - Adam or Eve? Why did Adam follow Eve into the sin? After
reading about 10 postings on the matter by various persons, I was
provoked to really consider the subject seriously for the first time.
THERE IS MORE TO THE STORY than I will speak to below - but
nonetheless, I say that what happened between Adam and Eve and their
sin is repeated every day among us..... read and see if it isn't so!
Who sinned worst or first - Adam
or Eve?
GENESIS 3:1-6
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast
of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman,
Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of
the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of
the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye
touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not
surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good
and evil.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for
food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to
make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave
also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
APPARENTLY, Eve knew that she was forbidden by God to eat of
this tree.
"Her husband with her" implies that Adam is present while
this happens (just noticed this for the first time).
Adam did not attempt to stop Eve from doing this.
I have been married for 25 years. That qualifies me to say a
little about what goes on in marriage in this life.
It is a common thing for husbands and wives to allow their
spouse to "instigate or commit the sin for me". EXAMPLE:
The husband opens a solicitation for cash donations from a charity that
came in the mail. He immediately feels insecure and a little guilty
because he does not want to give.
He presents the solicitation to his wife and says, "MORE requests
from charity....".
The wife (being influenced by the husband's disapproving tone)
says, "Just throw that in the trash with the other advertisements".
The husband breathes a sigh of relief and throws the
beg-letter away.
THIS is typical of how husbands and wives use each other all
the time.
EXAMPLE: The wife is informed that a Sister in her
church-fellowship needs someone to drive the children to and from
school tomorrow because the Sister's car is not running. The wife
feels a moment of insecurity, because she knows she CAN do that - but
she doesn't like having to get up at 5:30 in the morning in order to
pick up the other Sister's kids by 6:30 in the morning. She sighs
aloud, and tells her husband about the request. The husband, who
can hear the complaint in his wife's voice, knows that he is being
asked to find a way to excuse his wife from doing this. He
says, "No way!" (stoutly) "You are not going off to the
other side of town in that old car by yourself in the dark!". The
wife immediately calls the Sister and while moaning with feigned
regret, tells the Sister that HER HUSBAND will not permit it for
this and that reason.
The fact that the husband could have driven the old car to
work that day and left the new car for his wife to drive..... well, that
little detail is not mentioned.
AND, in these cases, both husband and wife may
be ready to PUNISH each other for failing to come through when the hint
is dropped.
(1 Corinthians 7:28) But and if thou marry, thou hast
not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless
such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.
1 Corinthians 7:32-34
1 Cor 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He
that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he
may please the Lord:
1 Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that
are of the world, how he may please his wife.
1 Cor 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a
virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she
may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth
for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.
The Lord was not being cruel to you by
saying these things: this was His way of "letting you live" even though
these things will be true!
Married Christians also use their children in similar acts of
dissembling.
EXAMPLE: The guests are not all that pleasing, and
the husband and wife wish they would leave - but the guests show no
eagerness to end the evening's conversation. The wife says, "WELL, I
must go and bathe the children now and get them to bed" (in a
resigned sort of tone) - and - "I need your help, honey" (to the
husband). Then, both the husband and the wife stand up and there is a long
silence. The guests get the hint, excuse themselves and begin
to make their way towards the door. At this point, both the husband
and the wife seem to cheer up and they exclaim aloud about
what a wonderful evening it has been and how sorry they are that
it had to end...........:o)
:o/
And children use each other and their parents in similar
scheming ways.
Yeah...... I've been married for 25 years and I have children.
(AND..... TO REVISIT AN OLD SUBJECT that this discussion reminds
me of....)
HOW ANYONE in their right mind can claim that they are
"perfected in holiness" under ANY definition of these terms........
that eludes me. I have never yet met the people who never do things
like this. I have never met anyone who has permanently stopped doing
things like this - and there is a host of other things that people do,
of like character, which are NOT deeds of courageous honesty - and
whatever is not courageous and honest is SIN.
We are all separated from each other by a gulf of sinfulness
that prevents any of us from being 100% totally honest ALL THE TIME
with each other. The fear of rejection is mighty - we do not wish to
lose the comfort, assistance, acceptance or support of anyone WE NEED
and depend on because of what may be for us only a momentary
thought and consideration. IN OTHER WORDS, we do not want to be
found out for what goes on in that private movie theater of our minds
and hearts.
This alienation is the proof that we are yet sinners. The most
we can do is live up to all the light that we can brave to face.
Those who willfully go back from the real and (relatively) free
opportunity to do or say the honest right thing should expect SPECIAL
SPANKINGS and losses - but otherwise, our common complicity in
these "little sins" causes the common lack of peace and
assurance that we all live with.
(Psalms 39:6) Surely every man walketh in a vain
show............
AND YET it is even unto people like us, that grace is poured
out and moments of joy and happiness are given. We do not have to be
perfect for life to be "pretty good". God is not (as some think, fear
and say) a nitpicking fault finder.
Psalm 130:3-5
Psa 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O
Lord, who shall stand?
Psa 130:4 But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou
mayest be feared.
Psa 130:5 I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his
word do I hope.
AFTER I WAS CONVERTED, I discovered that because I was a
coward, I was still doing things like this - and still doing them even
after I "caught myself" and knew I was not being FAITHful. And then, I
discovered that even after admitting to myself and to others that I was
doing things like this, I was still a coward and still doing things
like this. AND THEN, I discovered that even after preaching to you
about it - I WAS STILL DOING THINGS LIKE THIS!
and then..... someone came along and told me that if I did not
achieve some form of "sinless perfection" that I should wonder whether
or not I shall end up damned anyway....... "CHECK MATE".
It's all a matter of degree - and what is truly and
immediately required of you is limited by what freedom and opportunity
you have. We do not require a child to confront and denounce his
parent's false religion at the age of 5. Neither does God. I was
allowed to more or less "coast" with some faults and acts of sinful
COWARDICE when I was 22 years old, that would gain me a frightful
whipping or painful loss if I did just the same now at 52 years old.
(Luke 12:48) .............. For unto whomsoever much is
given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed
much, of him they will ask the more.
(1 Corinthians 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you
but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer
you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation
also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
THIS WORLD is seriously corrupted, and we are corrupted in it
and by it. This world needs to end, and be replaced by a different and
better world, where being courageously honest is not just
about the most self destructive thing you can do and be.
I will spend the rest of my life repenting for what amounts to
an unending discovery of just what a petty and servile sinner I WAS.
If I ever decide that there's no point in trying to be perfect any more
because I will never achieve perfection (and I won't - in this life) -
I have in fact SAID that "sin is not so bad".
Real Christians have infinitely obliged themselves to the
impossible requirement and they will never cease from trying to
attain what they never will attain in this life. This is a
heroic endeavor that is only undertaken by people who have agreed with
God that SIN IS NO GOOD AT ALL EVER IN ANY AMOUNT. Such people have
faced the facts and received the Holy Ghost Who testifies to us AGAINST
sin. We will no sooner quit trying to stop all sin than we will stop
trying to avoid all disease - even if we may never escape all
sickness! We will no sooner stop trying to quit all sin than we will
cease from trying to avoid pain! We live in a reality in which
whatever God does not like is SIN - and whatever God does not like is
BAD FOR US.
GOD does not bring it ALL up to you every second or right now
because IF HE DID, you would perish out of this world now, too.
You want proof of mercy? Watch that clock on the wall - that
second hand.
You want proof of God's good will towards you? Look
at what you have already, and how much hope there is and how much fun
you do get to have and all the freedoms and fine things you have at
your disposal! You (if you're on this list) have good friends who care
for you and who appreciate and respect you! Many of you live with or
near other Brethren and Sisters who care for you and respect you and
give to you.
AND ALL that was provoked out of me by reading this discussion
about Adam and Eve.
THANKS!
If you would like to find out more about this debate list
- let me know and I'll send to you an invitation and explanation.
3 John 2
Dean
Just Another Christian
